We are now starting our interview for the Osho Brazil Connection
- month of December.
Please, tell us how you heard of Osho, your meeting with the Master
and your experience with sannyas.'
I first heard of Osho:
'It was a day in spring in 1977. I was only 16 years of age. I
was in a park chatting with some girlfriends when we saw two young
boys. They were walking and were dressed in orange colours. They
were wearing a mala (a chain with wooden beads) with the photo
of someone. Then I said: They could be hippies, maybe?"
One of the girls then said that she had already talked with them
and that they were disciples of a spiritual master that lived
Something in me changed completely and soon came a certain urgency of something that I could not explain...
my childhood I already live connected with spiritual life. I had
gone through many experiences that could not be explained in the
Once I went into a such a deep state of ecstasy and transparency
that I lost completely the contact with the world and the people.
My prayers were simple. I thanked existence for everything that
had happened to me during the day... good or not so good. I talked
with the animals... with the trees.
I perceived that the trees were talking to each other... and I
felt an immense quietness and the sensation that there was no
separation. Tears would often be there.
that same day, in the same park, I talked with the sannyasins (meaning 'the one who renounced') and asked everything about the
Master. The thirst for Truth made me want to know everything in
small details. The sannyasins were going to meditate by the river
and invited us to join them. Two of us went.
We arrived and sat in silence by the river.
When I started making more questions, they said they didn't want
to talk and that the meditation was simply being in silence, alert
of everything around us, of the breath etc..
I sat then in a lotus posture, closed my eyes and felt the nature
alive, silent and clear. The sound of the water from the river
on the rocks was like a melody.Life simply happening from moment
to moment. Time stopped, and the thinking mind too.
When the meditation finished, I was transformed. And in that same
moment I asked what I would have to do to become a sannyasin.
At that time there was no material translated to Portuguese that
we could read. Only some lines translated from a small newspaper
that used to come from Poona-India. But there was no need to read
much, because what was being transmitted by Osho was beyond words,
time or space.
I filled in and sent the formular asking to become a sannyasin
To my surprise a sister of mine also decided to jump" into this new way of living - and dying.
We started doing meditation techniques, we coloured all our clothes
into orange and waited for the letter that would bring our new
name. A whole month passed.
One day, when I arrived home from school, there weas a letter
from India. My name became 'Ma Prem Avinash', and my sister got
the name 'Ma Prem Nitya'.
Both names have the same meaning: eternal love. The letter had
been signed by Osho himself. We felt drunk and very happy. The
feeling was that the whole existence was sharing that moment with
From then on my life started to be around Osho and his work. I
started making the meditation techniques and also became a meditation
leader. I worked with therapy groups and lived in many meditation
centers all over Brazil.
There was a time when I used to wake up in the morning, did meditation,
then I would go to work in a bank. After 8 hours of work, I would
lead meditations in the meditation center, after that I would
go for dinner with the other sannyasins. I would go back home
late in the night... but happy.
The mind is what creates confusion, when we follow the thoughts
and identify ourselves with them. Watching the thoughts, we discover
that they get dissolved into silence.'
meeting with the Master
'Only one priority in life: How to find who I really am?
I knew (or I though I knew) that many things would have to change
around me, so I could understand something inside myself. There
was no other way... I had made a compromise with sannyas (that
means to renounce what I am not) and I was ready to risk all what
would be needed to lift the veil of ignorance, of the unconscious
I was living in a meditation center in the south of Brazil, when
one day, in the year of 1982, arrived some news that the first
annual celebration in the physical presence of Osho would be happening,
and all the sannyasins should participate.
I just had become 21 years of age, and this allowed me to travel
abroad without the family´s permission.
The problem was that I was working in the bank, no holidays possible
at that time, and with no money to travel and be in America.
I stayed the whole night awake... looking to a photo of Osho that
would tell me: If you like to come you can, and I want you
to come... COME! The whole night between tears, ecstasy
and uncertainty. I would say that I could not go and he would
say Come! When the sun came up I was completely silent
I will go! I started then to make the practical preparations for
the journey. Like passport, dollars, ticket and visa.
When I told my older brother that I was going to the USA to see
the Master, he tried to convince me that to spend the money on
a car would make more sense instead of going travelling. Then
I told him that there was nothing more important in my life then
to meet the Master personally.
When the visa was given, after an interview, I could not keep
the tears back. They could not understand the importance. Inside
of me a tremendous happiness. I will see my Master in person!
After a lot of comings and goings I signed my leaving letter from
the bank and received some money for the three years I had been
The day of the travel arrived. Together with other sannyasins,
we got into the plane that would take us to the feet of our beloved
When we arrived in Rajneeshpuram - Oregon we were distributed
into tents. There we would stay during the festival.
In the afternoon there was a possibility to see Osho driving by
in his car, maybe, when he would go out. I remember to be next
to a road with some sannyasins, and suddenly someone shouted: I think it is Osho in that car! I went up to the road
quickly and saw that it was the car of Osho, and I was face to
face with Him!
The happiness, the peace, the love, and everything I felt cannot
be put into words. With a graceful smile he did Namasté (Indian greeting) with only one hand, because the other one was
driving the car, and went.
Wow! What happened? Time stopped. The unknown arrived and with
Another day was my birthday and I asked for a front seat
to sit closer to Him in discourse. The person asked me if it was
my body- or sannyas birthday. I simply said that it was not important,
that I just wanted to be with my master... that´s all. She
smiled and gave me a seat very close and in front of him. To be
face to face with Osho was intense and floating. When he looked
into my eyes I saw simplicity, nothingness, transparency, and
that everything is perfect as it is.
Since this day I understand how simple and at the same time extraordinary
it is to BE.'
experience with sannyas
'Being back in Brazil my whole life changed. Without work, I would
stay awake the whole night, meditating and looking into the clouds
At this time, many visions, past life memories, understanding
about life, of reality, of what I really want. For me, since I
took sannyas the priority was clear:
To find myself! This resolve gave me courage and trust to go ahead
- to go beyond the known!
Osho´s work had to continue! What he had come across was
possible to everyone! Because that is our own nature! I heard
him saying: You are already a Buddha. Open your eyes and
remember who you really are in reality. Find the understanding
that goes beyond the body, the mind and the emotions. Become innocent
again, humble and alert. Celebrate and live in the moment.
I lived during this time in many places in Brazil like Rio de
Janeiro, Sao Paulo, Salvador, Porto Alegre, Florianópolis
etc. working as a therapist, sharing Osho.
In 1984 I was back in the USA for another festival in the presence
of Osho. From there I went straight to Europe, together with other
South Americans. The idea of the community in Oregon was to create
a strong energy field for the work of Osho around the world, by
mixing the cultures.
For me it was an opportunity to be nearer to Osho and to invest
all the energy into my inner growth.
I went to Germany. First to Cologne, after a month to Hamburg
where I stayed for longer time, then Hannover. Later also in Italy.
In these communities, the work that I usually did was to coordinate
the kitchen and the cleaning departments, or in the bar of the
discos. I didn't like to work in the discos, because I had difficulties
to sleep during the day. I didn't like the movement and the stink
of cigarettes. Still it was clear for me that my work was to be
with myself and to find happiness that goes beyond the liking
and disliking. Beyond the duality of the mind.
In the evening, after the work, videos of Osho were shown. He
spoke in English. At that time I didn't understand English very
good, but even then, and with all the tiredness of a long day
of work I wouldn't miss any discourse. It always made me happy
to see Osho and be in meditation.
In the beginning of 1986 Osho returned to India, after travelling
all over the world. Exactly at that time I was in Cologne - Germany,
working to go and see Him in India. In this fase of my life I
used to meditate a lot.
One day I wrote a letter to Osho that expressed my gratitude and
saying that I loved Him very much... and together with these words
I draw a tree, a flower, a boat...
The answer from Osho said:
The heart knows no language. It knows how to love, It knows
how to be grateful.
It knows how to be open. It knows how to come so close to the
Master, that you are consumed in the very silence of the Master.
And his silence becomes your silence, and his truth becomes your
truth. This is the mystery that happens between the Master and
Soon after that I was in the community in Poona. Again, to be
in the presence of Osho was a great happiness. I had no other
interest then to meditate, to be, do trainings and to participate
in the expansion of the sannyas world.
In the ashram (community) in Poona I worked in the School
of Mysticism giving sessions in Counselling, Tarot and Chakra-Energy
Balancing. I also did translations of Osho books to Portuguese,
and translated therapy groups for Brazilians that didn't know
It was in one of these therapy group translations, in January
1989, that I came to know my partner Dhyandeva (now Gyandeva).
He was then one of the therapists.
In Germany sometimes I did also cleaning jobs, so I could have
enough money for India.
All the time and money was being invested into know myself into
the expansion of conciousness.'
So... we go on with our talk. This is the next question:
We see that you had rich experiences in the communes where you had
been, and also with Master Osho A gift that few human
Today you and your partner Gyandeva travel to many countries giving
Satsang (meeting in Truth), therapy groups, meditations, endlessly
sharing the experiences you had.
Now, lets talk about enlightenment. How to explain something that
seems not to be of this world? What do you answer when someone ask
you if you are enlightened?'
Now the answer:
is beyond the mind. Beyond the duality of this and that. You are
in communion with the whole.
You wake up to the reality that you are just passing by on this
You start then living from moment to moment, transcending time,
and getting into a new dimension of knowledge.
This state of consciousness beyond the mind is possible to everyone.
This reality is experienced as a jump into the unknown. You become
Being, or better, you remember that you are already what you are
searching for, and relax into the Now, in love and acceptance
of what is.
Each human being sooner or later will have to face up to its limitations,
its own masks and confused mind. It will see that too much energy
is being thrown away in tensions, sufferings, frustrations, etc.
and one clings to it as if it was a great thing. And life ends
up being very heavy to live.
I heard Osho saying: Be in the world but don't belong to
The mind identifies itself with I am so and so, I think
and I feel.... It runs to fulfill the desires, and ends
up forgetting that everything goes. And that with desire comes
the frustration. Happiness is in the journey itself and not at
Watching the thoughts you end up perceiving the silent moments
between one thought and another, you see that they come and disappear...
that they are not permanent...
Then comes an urgency to know who I am in reality, beyond the
body, the mind and the emotions.
This urgency becomes priority. The energy directs itself to this
rediscovery, while one lives in the moment, celebrating and trusting
in trust itself.
Here, the doors open for the birth of a 'new man'. Sincere, innocent,
silent, laughing, ALIVE!
There is a moment where a jump into reality happens
by itself, in the divine grace... and dissolves 'you' as an 'I'.
You, literally, LIVE existence itself before the appearance of
What I express here cannot be called experience, because there
is no one experiencing, but in this 'happening', there is a moment
that everything dissolves completely... an explosion into nothingness...
you are thrown into nothingness... where there is no up nor down,
no sides, no colours, no sky, no sea.... absolutely nothing...
not even space.
The understanding is that we are existence itself... that which
is never born and will never die... that is eternal.
After an experience like this you live life in tune with reality.
The duality of life continues, but the actions happen according
to the moment - accepting what is.
Everything changes, and at the same time nothing changes.
Finally coming back home... to simply being.
Here, the freedom!
someone asks me if I am enlightened, I send another question asking: Lets first see what you understand by enlightenment.
The masters speaks in different ways to express this phenomenon,
it seems even a joke, is already are own nature.
Osho used the word 'enlightenment'. Each person translates it
in his own way according to his personality or level of understanding,
with what he believes.
The truth is: everyone forgets that true realization is beyond
ideas, concepts, pre-concepts, of how an enlightened being has
to be, act or feel. An enlightened being is unenforceable. He
flows with existence and is rarely understood.
There is an story told by Osho that I love very much:
A king went to visit a great master for the first time.
When he arrived he was received by a very simple man who was working
in the gardener.
He said he wanted to see the master and the gardener brought him
to a room telling him to wait a little bit and that the master
would come soon.
The king went into the room, sat down and waited.
Suddenly he saw the gardener arrive and sit on the master's chair.
That was too much. He became very angry and said: 'Stand up from
this chair immediately. Stupid man. You are disrespecting the
The gardener left the chair, sat on the floor and said: 'Now the
chair is empty and the master will not come, because I am the
And the king lost the opportunity.
This story shows the simplicity of being and how the human mind
I heard Osho also saying that many people fall in the illusion I arrived... I became enlightened, but the ego
the I shows itself coming from the back door.
Poonjaji (Papaji) used to say: I arrived! - Arrogance. I
am still searching! - Also arrogance.
Beyond duality is the answer... in the mystery... in being...
and it's spread to everyone who is capable to open the heart to
I like to use to word realization, and I can say that I realized
my work of finding myself.
Now, coming from my own experience I share, together with Gyandeva,
this space of 'simply being'. We show to friends in our meetings
that it is possible to let go of the illusion and live in peace...
love... and in union with Truth here and now.
Very authentic your answer about enlightenment. You are in a very
beautiful space, doesn't matter the name it has. You yourself
gave a name to this space: Simply Being.'
'Osho´s message number one: the meeting with oneself in
the essence, in consciousness.
To illustrate this, here are some words of Osho himself to Gyandeva
em Poona-1980 when he gave him sannyas initiation:
Meditation means a state of no mind: simply looking, simply
sitting, simply being. In the moment you are in this space, you
know what God is. And to know God is to know all. To know God
is to be a God. This is the unfolding of your being, of the one
thousand petals of the lotus of consciousness.
This is the goal of sannyas.
I heard Osho saying that it is possible for enlightenment to happen
this very moment.
Listened to your own heart... and trust... not in someone in particular,
but in trust itself... and have the courage to live in the moment,
to investigate the truth of Being.'
Avinash speak´s about her experience when Osho left the
I was living in Munich (Germany) together with Gyandeva. One day
in the month of September or October 1989, I had a clear perception
that I would have to go to Poona in January. I shared my decision
with Gyandeva. He, on that same night, had a dream with Osho and
the commune and decided to join me.
On the next day we started to see the possibilities of how to
make more money in a short period of time for our journey.
In the beginning of January we arrived in Goa. After few days
we took the bus to Poona. Arriving in the Buddha Hall (meditation
room), we received the news that Osho would not give a discourse
on that evening. Next day the same thing.
On the third evening of the 19th of January 1990, still at home
preparing myself to go to the ashram, I opened an Osho book at
a random page. This should be the Master´s message to me.
It said: The Master was dying and the disciple asked: 'Master,
what is your last message?' - The Master let go of a lions roar
This was the most strange message that I could have received in
my life. A little impressed, Gyandeva and I went to the Buddha
Instead of Osho appearing for the discourse, his doctor came announcing
that Osho had left the body. Gyandeva and I held hands for some
instants... then we were by ourselves digesting the intensity
of the moment. In my consciousness it was a huge YES. Yes to existence
itself as it is.
This, this, this... one thousand times this!
In that night in the ashram, the food was there available and
We all went to the cremation grounds to see the body of our beloved
Master be cremated and transformed into ashes. And to experience
that life continues... that the love and the presence stay, even
when the body is gone.
What a lesson! What a compassion! What a love! What a luck to
be there... in that moment... experiencing all that.
Osho had said he was dissolved in everything. That is true. I
walked through the streets and could see him, feel his presence
in the birds, in the trees, in the people...
speaks about her life after she met Sri Poonjaji (Papaji):
one and a half years that Osho had left the body, existence took
me to be in the presence of Papaji. I never felt any separation,
not even for a moment.
There, in Lucknow in the north of India, many sannyasins started
arriving to see Papaji.
Many old sannyasins that lived in the ashram since the beginning
of the Osho movement, center leaders from all over the world and
therapists were coming..
In the presence of Papaji they laughed, shared and also asked
questions. Some stayed, others left, some returned. The motive
for the attraction were very diverse.
Some went against Osho. Then my work became to call their attention
for creating separation because of arrogance???
Papaji for sure is a great Master, a true Guru (Sadguru). Different
from Osho in the way of being, but who is equal in this world?
The essence is the same...
The same love, the same compassion and the peace that comes from
the source, from the silence... one heart... one consciousness.
I felt Osho with me always. Through many experiences... there
was no doubt. He is with me wherever I go.
Papaji told me to speak the silence I have found like the Buddha
did after his realization.
So, the work continues: sharing Simply Being with
the ones that feel touched.
Seeing reality in oneness, truth and love.
'I continue to spread the message of Osho and Papaji, also of
other realized beings like
Buddha, Ramana Maharshi, Jesus, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Ranjit Maharaj...
What I express comes from my own experience and from the moment.
Into silence... clarity love.
The work that Gyandeva and I created called: 'Simply Being' is
shared through Meetings, Intensives, Courses, Sessions,
This sharing is happening in Brazil, India and Germany.'